Andrew J. Mason:
On today's episode of the ProGuide, we have author, speaker, and former police chief of Aurora, Illinois. Kristen Ziman.
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Well, welcome everybody to this episode of the ProGuide. My name's Andrew J. Mason, and today we are so excited to have Kristen Ziman with us. Kristen was the first woman police chief of the Aurora Police Department, and Aurora is the second-largest city in Illinois outside of Chicago. And now she's leveraging that experience to transform organizational leaders and catalyze culture change. And she's been traveling the country delivering keynotes, conferences and workshops, and giving that hard-earned action-oriented inspiration that she's captured while she was on the job. Kristen, thank you so much for joining us.
Kristen Ziman:
Thank you for having me, Andrew. I look forward to chatting.
Andrew J. Mason:
Well, Kristen, I know that you only recently retired from the police force and it turns out that all the hard-earned experience that you've had while you're on the force is something that the business world is pretty hungry for. So, talk to us a little bit about how you ended up where you were in the police force and then a little bit of that crossover. What is it about policing that has a few things in common with business?
Kristen Ziman:
Yeah, for sure. So the best laid plans in life, the second part of my career came out of nowhere. I did 30 years in my police department, so I started at the police department at the tender age of 17. I literally graduated from high school and started as a baby police cadet, having wanted to be a police officer my entire life, the short life up until then. And so I did. I actually got hired at 21 as a sworn officer and I spent all 30 years in my home city, Aurora, and I moved up through the ranks in the department and I actually became chief in 2016 and then ended up retiring in 2021 after a wonderful and gratifying and challenging career. And I found myself at this crossroads and I wasn't sure what I wanted to be when I grew up. And so I took some time to just sit and contemplate and try to make sense of my career in law enforcement.
And when I left, it was about a year after the George Floyd murder and that set ripple effects across the nation. So, I really wanted to reflect on a career in policing. So, I sat down and I wrote a book about it, and I just purged my soul into this book. And interestingly enough, I was doing some speaking while I was a Commander in Chief, getting invited to conference and things like that, but it was really all just a part of my work.
And well then I found myself with a title that honestly I would give anything to take away, and that's subject matter expert in mass shootings because we had a mass shooting and I serve on the International Chiefs Association on their mass shooting advisory board. I'm on the DOJ team that's doing the Val Day review. And so from that and from my book, I started getting asked to speak, and then after having these speaking engagements and speaking at conferences and being asked to keynote... And what's interesting is some of them, about 50%, were on mass shooting prevention and preparation while the other 50% was on leadership and culture and optimism. So, two very different tracks of leadership, which is really interesting and kept things blight on one side and [inaudible 00:03:51] on the other.
But this became a thing that I wasn't expecting. I didn't know one, that this was a business. I didn't know the world of speaking. And so I just accidentally started doing it and launched a business. And so it's been interesting coming from policing and especially the adventurous side of policing, but then the admin side and then finding myself now starting my own business and trying to figure out how it all works. So, quite a challenge at a crossroads, but super rewarding in trying to figure it out as I go along.
Andrew J. Mason:
Wow. Kristen, it's amazing to hear this. I think about... I'm just picturing the business leaders that are nodding their heads, saying, "Yes, I did sign up to be a founder, a CEO business leader or whatever, a leader in my organization, my nonprofit, but what I didn't do was sign up for all the day-to-day stuff that shows up there that wasn't a part of that. I didn't ask for that." Can you speak a little bit to somebody who's maybe feeling that way?
Kristen Ziman:
Yeah, well, it's interesting and coming from policing, it has afforded me a very interesting perspective, especially when it comes to emergencies. And day to day there are all the small fires that we have to put out, and especially when you're in a position of leadership, it's all about small fires. But here is what the perspective of policing has done for me. And it genuinely is as simple as this. Did anyone die? Is this a mass shooting? Is there blood anywhere? And honestly, that's how I look at life. I mean, being a cop on the street and seeing the worst of the worst, I know what an emergency is, and I can tell you it's not the project or the emails that you have to answer right now. So I think what that does is, and please don't misunderstand me. When you're running a business, there are urgent matters that you must tend to. But I think what we do is we tend to get completely enveloped by it becoming this emergency or this crisis.
When you take a step back, what I've learned and what I learned in policing is there's two things, one of which is you have to jump when, let's call it the defecation, hits the oscillation. And that is we don't have time to talk through it, to ask questions, it's jump how high, it's go. We have those in companies and it's time to go. And this is what I learned in leadership is that when you take the time on the front end to work through some of the systems and the processes that are going to be put in place by truly gathering feedback from those who are going to be affected by your decisions, the more time that you spend on the front end working out the bugs, developing, identifying the gaps and really bringing people into it, the less time you're going to spend on the back end after you put this system in place and have someone say, "Well, this doesn't work for us."
So, I say that all to say that not everything is an emergency, but there are a lot of things that are urgent, but we have to make sure that we have the perspective. And sometimes you just have to hit the pause button, take a step back and say what is important now.
Andrew J. Mason:
I love that reset mentality that says, "Okay, I'm setting the bar for success at nobody died."
Kristen Ziman:
Nobody died.
Andrew J. Mason:
That's really helpful honestly. For somebody that finds themselves that they are in charge, they are leading and maybe they're even a victim of their own creation of the culture that they've created, how do they regain that control and perspective and put handles around all that when the fire hose of everything is coming at them? Any suggestions for how to regain that space?
Kristen Ziman:
Well, I think the first thing you have to do, and I'm borrowing this from Stephen Covey's 7 Habits, is to begin with the end in mind. And honestly, once... I call it reverse engineering, is, okay, where do we want to be? So, what does that look like? And here's also where we, I think, fail sometimes as leaders, is that when I try to explain here's a system or process I want to put in place, I have to paint a picture of that, and it has to be the same picture that everyone else sees. And the problem is as we go about our businesses and we think that we are reaching that goal or we are in alignment to the vision and the mission of our company, our organization, our CEO, what have you, and as it turns out, we're not on the same page at all.
And that is incumbent upon the leader to make sure that I, as the leader, say, "Okay, here is where I'd like to go. Here is what this looks like. Tell me how it looks to you. Let's compare." And then along the way, now we have to determine, as I mentioned earlier, what's important now. Is this feeding the goal and the end in mind? And some things are just minutia that you can set to the side and say, "Now this is not in direct alignment to the goal that we are trying to achieve. Let's put that on ice. We'll come back to it, but that's not an urgent matter now."
And so I think that really is part of the communication that a leader has to have. But so many times leaders say, "Hey guys, here's what we're doing." And then they expect everyone just to read their minds and everybody's going in a different direction thinking that they're in alignment. So, it really is checking in and saying, "Hey, all right guys, what do we have accomplished right now? Here's the blueprint. Let's meet you in a couple of weeks and see what we've accomplished and are we in alignment together?"
Andrew J. Mason:
Oh, that's so good. Makes me think of... Andy Stanley has a quote says "vision leaks," and it's so important to re-share, restate that vision continuously. Because once we think that we're just way overstating it, people are just then starting to get it, and how helpful that is. I want to switch gears a little bit into the barrage that we were talking about earlier where this input is constantly never endingly coming toward people who are making decisions on behalf of their culture.
And I came across something on your website. I'd love to read this paragraph, honestly, just word for word. There's not a better way to say it than this negativity that people fight against. And here's what you say, "Day in and day out, when police officers respond to 911 calls, they're not responding to people at their best. They're responding to violence and pain and death. Their brains get rewired for negativity. So much so, that studies have shown that police officers are more likely to die from suicide than in the line of duty. This is just not okay with me." It absolutely is not okay, but with that, what suggestions do you have for keeping, preventing people from leaning into that negative, being jaded? Is there anything proactive we can do to offset that?
Kristen Ziman:
Yeah, and I'll start broadly with the police world, but I'll just touch on that because that's not everyone's reality. You're not showing up at 911 calls when people are at their worst. You're not trying to get the knife out of someone's hand. But starting there is really a great foundation because... And this is not an excuse by any means because I have a real issue with police officers, which would I call them mirrored sunglasses and attitude. But there are times where you can understand. It's like you're going through the course of your day and you're breaking up domestics and fights and neighborhood disputes and all of the things that are negative, and then the next call you're pulling someone out from a car who's been in an accident. I mean, it's just destruction after destruction. And people wonder why police officers become calloused. Right?
And so I think that these techniques, even when maybe the day is not that deep, but just these techniques of everyone has a barrage of negativity. Let's call it the thousand tiny cuts. Let's even use social media as an example. It's like you pop onto social media and there are the bullies, and you name it, everyone is there and everyone's just a punching bag. And so here's what I told the police officers is that it's almost like a mechanic. A mechanic who works on broken cars all day may begin to believe that all cars are broken, when in fact you're dealing with maybe just the negative, the worst of the worst, maybe a bad customer interaction that you've had with someone who's unsatisfied.
And so what needs to be done in that moment so you don't take it out on the next customer that you talk with, or on one of your team members or on someone in your organization, is to take a step back and detect... This is Viktor Frankl at its finest. And what his lessons are, between that moment of stimulus and response, there is a moment of freedom where you are allowed to pause and you are allowed to determine your own course of action.
And it is that pause that is so crucial. And that's what I tell police officers. You get in your squad car and you just six seconds of breathing, just find your center and move on to the next one. And taking that moment will allow you to see everything a little more clear. So, the negativity, first of all, is a choice to fall into, but there has to be a pattern interrupter. And that pattern interrupter has to be you. And it lives inside your head to say, "All right, I'm going down a negative road here. That guy pissed me off and I'm going to carry this through the day." Insert any bad experience here.
You can take that and your day will just continue to unfold in the same way until you can become your own pattern interrupter. And what's so interesting is there are so many techniques in the field of positive psychology that allow us to break out of that negativity cycle. And what's so great is they're so easy. They're so easy. One of them literally is that pause and deep breath. The other is to go seek out someone who makes you laugh. The other is to go take a very brief walk.
For me, what I've found is just engaging with someone positive is enough to put my mind right. And the best thing that you can do is practice not only gratitude, but to do a random act of kindness to someone else. So, try going to grab a cup of coffee, paying for the person behind you, and all of those positive hormones just leak into your body when you do something nice for someone else. So, my point in all of this in this long-winded answer is that it's deliberate, but you have to choose to be your own pattern interrupter to get out of the negativity.
Andrew J. Mason:
I love how you say that it is a choice. It is a choice. There's so many people that look for that external stimulus. "I'm having a bad day, therefore it's incumbent upon the world around me to make me feel better." Yeah, our actions can affect change in other people. I do believe that. I feel like a great example during the pandemic was this creation of the space. A lot of people had the work from home forced upon them. And when you had trouble switching roles, when you weren't able to switch context anymore, and that space where the drive home used to give people that mental reset. For me just going out and getting the mail for 30 seconds, 45 seconds and walking around and looking at birds, it just gives you that breather that's, Okay, not working. I'm here to be present for my family."
Kristen Ziman:
And the beauty of it is that it's individual for everyone. You mentioned nature, which is amazing because it has such a soothing effect on people. And when you look around, when you become conscious of it and you deliberately, wow, you soak in your surroundings, it's that moment of awe. There's now all this research on awe. But it's like we go through our day and we become literally just unconscious of what's around us. And so it is, it's deliberate. And so what works for you may not work for me. And that's the beauty of it, is figuring out what works for you. But the most important part is being able to recognize it so you can get out of it. It's that attention to it. So...
Andrew J. Mason:
Kristen, could you give us the gift of talking to somebody out there that is feeling the tension of, "Yeah, I know things don't grow unless I delegate, unless I trust." But we're buying into, and even sometimes this lie that nobody can do this as well as I can, and I'm having trouble, whether for results reasons or quality reasons or whatever, letting go of the things that I need to let go of in order to see my endeavor scale.
Kristen Ziman:
Yeah, I suffer from this affliction big time. What's so interesting is not so much in the policing world, because I had the great sense to look to others and tell them, "Hey, listen, this is your wheelhouse. This is your area of expertise. You are a very tactical operational person. I'm more of a project visionary person." So for me, it was a lot easier to look to my subject matter experts and say, "Hey, put in a preparation plan if the worst thing that could happen." So, I would say that that's your first job as a leader in your organization, is you have to look to your people and say, "What are our threats? What are our strengths? What are our opportunities?"
In answering this question, and it's because it's something that I suffer from now in my own business where I am literally trying to do all the invoicing, trying to do everything but speak, build my presentations. And it was really hard for me to relinquish that control. And it's interesting because one of the things I speak about when I go around and talk about leadership is, what your people want. And Daniel Pink, the author and social scientist outlines this succinctly. Your people want three things. They want autonomy, they want mastery, and they want purpose. So, I would say your first job is to give people autonomy. So, what does that look like? Well, when's the last time Andrew, you said, "Gosh, I just love it when people control me." Yeah, never. And no one ever says that, right? And so I think as leaders, we have to really remind ourselves how we flourish under leadership. And it's when we are given the autonomy, when someone looks at us and says, "Hey, here's the vision.' Because that's the leader's job is to paint the vision. "Here's the vision, how would you go about doing it?"
And then genuinely you let them do it. And that's where trust comes in. And here's the paradox of trust. There's only one way to trust someone. There's one way to determine whether you can trust someone. Wait for it. It's to trust them. That's it. Is you have to trust them. But the problem is we don't want to trust people for all those reasons you just cited. "I can do it better. I don't have time to show you. It'll take me less time just to do it myself. And nobody can see the vision that I want." But here's the thing is that people surprise you. And that's what I learned in my career, is when I relinquished control, there was so much fulfillment in what actually happened in the outcome. It far exceeded my expectations than when I just had the vision myself.
So, when people stop feeling as though they have control over their jobs, then what happens is they check out and they just check boxes. They do the very status quo. And I call it the dog that does not bark, is that when your people stop giving you feedback, when they stop sharing their ideas, that's when you've got the biggest problem. So, it's tough. Though, listen, it's easy to sit here and say, "Just trust people. Let them run with it." But honestly, I have found 99 out of a hundred times, everyone surprises me with their ingenuity and their creativity.
Andrew J. Mason:
Kristen, this has been so helpful. Thank you so much for spending time with us. One final question before we let you go, and that is, throughout your journey so far, is there anything that you would consider to be a mistake? Maybe not necessarily regret or a failure. But if you had to travel the same path that you were traveling on again and you were advising somebody a mile or two behind you and you're thinking, "Man, this is really going to work." But just now looking back, "I would skip that part."
Kristen Ziman:
Yeah, a couple of things that as I look back and that's afforded me the benefit of connecting the dots backwards and being able to assess a 30-year career. And there's a few things. Number one, and this is so trite, and yet it is the remedial lesson. Every time I try to fit into a mold of someone else. Here's what a police officer is supposed to act like. Here's what a sergeant, lieutenant, commander, chief is supposed to behave like. It's these manmade templates. And we often look to other organizations, other leaders, other CEOs, and we compare ourselves. And again, this is a lesson that I've fallen on my face and had to relearn. And I have found that I was the most successful in my career and in my personal life when I was just myself, not trying to sit into someone else's template. So that's, I think, the most important thing.
And the other is what we touched on a little is... Especially when I became chief, I was so hell-bent on changing everything. And you also have to pace yourselves when it comes to your organization, and make sure that your people are on board or you're going to leave people behind. And it's a little counterintuitive because you say that sometimes a leader has to stand on that island by themselves. Yes, that's factual in order to paint the vision. But then when you turn around and no one's behind you, you're not going to get anything done. And so you have to make sure that you're bringing people along with you. And I found the more I focused... And you said it at the top of this podcast. The more I focused on human connection, on relationships, that is when we made the greatest progress, when I really focused on people instead of things. That is a lesson that I can... That is one thread that I can pull throughout my 30-year career, and the failures that I've had when I was so focused on the process and not on the people.
Andrew J. Mason:
Such good advice. Man, changing at a pace that people can understand and deal with. Any kid that's ever been hanging on to a merry-go-round as it spun too fast and shot off can understand that things go too fast and you lose people. Kristen, how can folks get in touch with you, contact you, connect with you for anything that you're doing?
Kristen Ziman:
Yeah, you can just go right to my website. It's kristenziman.com. And man, I would love to come speak at your organization. Also buy my book. You don't have to read it. [inaudible 00:22:38].
Andrew J. Mason:
That's perfect. Thank you, Kristen.
Kristen Ziman:
All right. Take care, Andrew.
Andrew J. Mason:
And our thanks to all of you for listening. If you're looking for a quick way to make our day, a review in iTunes or subscribing to this podcast would mean the world to us. Our thanks to Small Pond Productions for sponsoring, and this was The ProGuide. Learn from Leaders, change Your Life. See everybody.
